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infinities edge
Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 197
Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:07 pm |
 Post subject: OT god vs. NT god |
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Why was the god of the old testament vengeful, angry, jealous, and spiteful. He was not particularly fond of forgiveness either it appears. he even helps that one guy ( god i wish i could remember his name) commit genocide with a donkey's jawbone.
Then we get to the new testament, and god is love. He will forgive at any time, even on your deathbed. he no longer smites you because you told a lie.
So my question is... If god is, and always has been, and there is no time for god... How can god change over time?
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infinities edge
Joined: 30 May 2006
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Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:07 pm |
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Another question could be why would a perfect being ever change his mind? Or for that matter, why would a perfect being ever create something that does things he doesn't want them to do? Why would an omnipotent being ever feel the need to kill off most of the people he created because of what they were doing? If he hated that behavior so much and he is perfect and omnipotent, why would he create a being that does it?
The Christian God can't be logically justified. If you consider questioning, you will lose your faith. Just as Adam and Eve sought the fruit of knowledge in the garden. God punished them for wanting to know what the fuck was going on.
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Wilkins
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Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:25 pm |
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I ask the same questions myself.. I myself do not understand.
But when you stop thinking "logically" then you could begin to understand it all........ That's all I have at the moment
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gtfo - cc
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Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:46 pm |
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Too Long/Didnt' Read
+1 (Nothing to contribute)
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Lolli[pop]ian
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Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:50 pm |
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| why do you even ask questions no matter what the hell we say you're not going to listen...God punished them because they sinned...duh...geez why are you STILL going on about this... |
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infinities edge
Joined: 30 May 2006
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Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:43 pm |
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Because i'm looking for an answer other than your "Because a book said it".
Mathew that's exactly what I mean, the bible is false, almost completely. The whole god thing however is slightly plausible (at best, without any evidence and only being a theory, but still)...
No I take that back, not so much god but a 'heaven and hell' of sorts, (of which was around before christ, in Egyptian and Indian beliefs among others) based on what you did through-out your life. The more negative things you did the worse your afterlife, and the opposite with positive things.
That is my philosophy, search astral projection (something I have had an experience with and do believe in) the different levels of existance etc.
Alright, I really fail at explaining things, i'll organise my thoughts and post them in a way that almost makes sense at night when i'm more awake...
*Russian salute*
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infinities edge
Joined: 30 May 2006
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Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:45 pm |
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Again to Debbie;
| infinities edge wrote: | why would a perfect being ever create something that does things he doesn't want them to do? Why would an omnipotent being ever feel the need to kill off most of the people he created because of what they were doing? If he hated that behavior so much and he is perfect and omnipotent, why would he create a being that does it?
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Just so he can punish them? Or because a book written by man said so?
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Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:48 pm |
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*ruins conversation*
Stick it to the MAN!
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infinities edge
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Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:54 pm |
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The man is like, the biggest douche, so are those fucking Australians, burn them all I say!!11! Then burn all cats!! And eat them!eleven!!
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Wilkins
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Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:00 pm |
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Fred.. I understand what you mean.
The best thing you have got in a attacking Christianity at its "plausibilty". You some times attack the "cultness" of Christianity.. Wanna see an extract from a real cult site.. or the church of Satan?
SATANISTS READ BELOW:
1. Some of you think that Christians are mean and hateful. We would like to point out this fact to you: THE CHRISTIANS YOU THINK OF ARE ACTUALLY NOT CHRISTIANS AT ALL.
2. Some of you claim to strive to get rid of Christianity altogether. And that's fine. Everyone has a goal.
3. Some of you claim to not believe in a real God or Satan. Remember, this is not a putdown on you.
A. Where do you think Anton LaVey got the idea of Satan from? Which came first: Bible or Satanic Bible? Bible came first (it's 2000 years old), Satanic Bible is only like 40 or 50 years old.
B. You claim to be a free-thinker, meaning you think for yourself. So why do you not think about part 'A'?
ABOVE ALL, why do you hate Jesus? I hated Jesus during that part of my life because of the hypocrites in the Christian church. There is no real reason at all to hate Jesus.
4. You are taught that we Christians always like to cheat people out of money and force people to pay tithes to be a member.
A. This is the biggest lie I have ever heard. Only cults will do that.
5. Some of you mistake cults for Christian denominations.
Some of these cults are:
United Pentecostal Church
Jehovah's Witnesses
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons)
Others
Don't mistaken these cults for Christian.
6. Everyone has faults. I have been called a 'sheep' by some Satanists, but no one is 'holy'. Everyone sins. I am just as much a sinner as everyone else.
7. When you put down on people for being Christian when you say you 'hate when they judge people', you are guilty of doing the same thing. REMEMBER, THIS IS NOT A PUTDOWN.
8. I found this at this URL: http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/Affiliation.html
You guys are free thinkers, right? If you don't believe me go to the URL yourself. Just cut and paste.
"For registration: please send us $200 in U.S. funds (in check, money order, bank draught, or International Money Order drawn on a U.S. bank made out to Church of Satan, or you may pay via PayPal* which requires an additional $8.00 service charge—see below) along with your legal name and complete mailing address, plus the following statement, signed and dated by yourself:
Please enroll me as a Registered Member of The Church of Satan. I recognize that failure to practice the principles of the Church of Satan and/or engaging in illegal activity may result in termination of this membership. I am legally of adult age in my nation of residence.
Enclosed is $200.00 in US funds.
Send this to: Church of Satan, New York Contact, P.O. Box 499, Radio City Station,
New York, NY 10101-0499 U.S.A."
Guess what? Christian churches, true Christian churches to be exact, have NEVER asked for $200 for membership. Like I said, only cults do that. They have never asked for anything actually.
Anton LaVey got this from the Bible. He had to, the Bible came first. And guess what? He forgot to add that:
1. Satan was defeated 2000 years ago. He's just digging his own grave.
Most of all, why be on the loser's side? We are not trying to convert anyone. You claim that Jesus did not die for your sins. If Anton LaVey got this from the Bible (which he did), then why not believe that He did die for you? I'm not putting down on anyone, but you are really closed minded when you close your mind to things like this. One of the prophets of the Bible prophesied 600 years before Jesus' birth that the death at the cross would happen for all mankind. Guess what? It did. REMEMBER, I'M NOT TRYING TO CONVERT ANYONE.
If you would like to talk about this, feel free to leave us a message.
Thank you!
IF YOU ARE ANTICHRISTIAN, READ THIS:
Most of what you hear about Christians being mean and hateful is totally false. The so-called Christians you think of are just hypocrites, and hypocrites are in no way Christians.
1. Here is a comment left on our website:
Name: Nattefrost
Email Address:
Web site URL:
Comments: You guys are idiots. You say you're playing the music to "reach out to metal heads." Good luck there. Some bands play metal because they love metal, not to perform some stupid "outreach" to people who think they are totally ridiculous. Christians would be totally ridiculous were it not for the fact that you glorify oppression in the USA and support murder in the Middle East and elsewhere. Oh, and your so-called priests are pedophiles and like to touch 9 year old boys. So Christianity is pretty low on my list of groups promoting made-up fairytales. Pull your head out of your ass. Christ is dust and Santa Claus was Mom and Dad.
This is a weird comment. For the last time, priests that touch 9 year old boys are NOT CHRISTIAN, and Christians do not support murder or glorify oppression. We do not hate anyone. True Christians don't hate anybody.
Thank you for reading this.
If you want to know more, just mail us.
And hey how about the contradictions of Islam eh?
In Chapter 85 of the Koran, verses 21-22, it states that the Koran is Holy and on a guarded tablet. Then it shouldn't have any contradictions in it, should it? REMEMBER, THIS IS NOT A PUTDOWN ON ANYONE. Let's look at a few scriptures from the Koran:
What was man created from?
Chapter 96:2 - "He created man from a clot."
Ok there's the answer. But wait a minute, I saw this too:
Chapter 15:26 - "And certainly We created man of clay that gives forth sound, of black mud fashioned in shape."
That's not all:
Chapter 3:59 - "Surely the likeness of Isa is with Allah as the likeness of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be", and he was.
Three contradictions already. This is sad.
Some more on the SAME subject:
Chapter 16:4 - "He created man from a small seed an lo! he is an open contender!"
Chapter 19:67 - "Does not man remember that we created him before, when he was nothing?"
To Muslims: Which one is right? Clot? Clay? Dust? Seed? Nothing?
All of these cannot be true at the same time.
Another question: Can we drink wine?
Chapter 5:90 - "O you who believe! Intoxicants and games of chance and sacrificing to stones set up and dividing by arrows are only uncleanness, the Shaitan's work; shun it therefore that you may be successful."
Ok, we can't drink wine. I saw another scripture a while ago very different.
Chapter 47:15 - "A parable of the garden which those guarding against evil are promised: Therein are rivers of water that does not alter, and rivers of milk the taste whereof does not change, and rivers of drink delicious to those who drink, and rivers of honey clarified and for them therein are fruits and protection from their Lord."
Let me ask this: Why is it an abomination down here to drink wine when you can do it in heaven? It does not make sense. If it is an abomination here, but permitted in heaven, then heaven would be an abominable place.
These are just but a few contradictions in the Koran. I'm not putting down on anyone. It is just that we, Eternal Mystery, are called to expose false doctrine and false religion.
And yes.. I went to the Ipswich Library and picked up a Koran and read it. It said exactly what was was said up there...
So the only thing you have going for you is the plausibilty of Christianity, and thats when faith comes in.. Faith is not logic
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Lolli[pop]ian
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Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:16 pm |
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| what do you know about the united pentecostal church? i havent heard of it...and i never thought that people thought christians were mean and hateful i always thought non-christians considered us as freaks and weirdos, im not talking about anyone here but yeah... |
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inf0rm3r
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Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:36 pm |
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" United Pentecostal Church"
It is not a cult get it right. |
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infinities edge
Joined: 30 May 2006
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Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:38 pm |
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| Corpse wrote: |
This is a weird comment. For the last time, priests that touch 9 year old boys are NOT CHRISTIAN, and Christians do not support murder or glorify oppression. We do not hate anyone. True Christians don't hate anybody. |
But they are Christians, just sinning... OMG H4x
| Corpse wrote: |
And hey how about the contradictions of Islam eh?
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I was talking about all organised religions, not just Christianity etc.
They are books, written by people, or engraved by people or whatever else.
Many many religious people would agree, you see, religions, made by people, can't be trusted like that, it's not right. But the things behind them, the parts that say to do what's right to live a good life.
I'll just leave it at this and let you interpret it in your own way.
Also the thing you posted was obviously written by a Christian, and I hope you're not trying to imply i'm satan-y.
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Wilkins
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Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:53 pm |
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I wasnt suggested you werent satan-y.. Im just distinguishing the difference between a religion and a cult.. I cant remember who said it, but some one said that Christianity was a cult.. Christianity doesnt require you to send money to be a member.. Just showing you that...
And as for the thing about the pastor molestering the kid.. Yes that stuff is a sin. It's inexcusable (I should know more than most on this forum), but Christ forgives all, even those who do that sort of thing.. But some people just arent gonna give up their ways, which kinda destorys what Christianity stands for..
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inf0rm3r
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Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:00 pm |
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| But united pentecostal isnt a cult look up day of pentecost and see for yourself. |
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Wilkins
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Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:39 pm |
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Yeah, that maybe the case..
Does a religion uses money (not tithes) to become a member.. then cult.. if not? then no.. I read the United Pentacostal thing.. it doesnt seem "cultish"
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Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:00 pm |
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| thats because its not. |
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infinities edge
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Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:25 pm |
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Doesn't have to require money to be a cult.
A cult is objective really, depending on how you look at it all religions are cults, and according to wikipedia cults are not a bad thing, just a label people have given religions they don't like.
That's not to say it's not 'wrong', 'sick' or 'twisted', simply that that is all opinion.
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Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:33 pm |
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| debbie wrote: | | i always thought non-christians considered us as freaks and weirdos, im not talking about anyone here but yeah... |
I think you're pretty and normal! Damn it, I wish you were talking about me...
P.s Seriously Debbie, Do not listen to me...
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♥ yσυ fσґєvєґ вãвy
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Lolli[pop]ian
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Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:12 pm |
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| aww thanks...too bad i listened hey... |
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Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:18 pm |
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well you can if you want...
 Ollloooloooo!
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clairey
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Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:25 pm |
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I have a question... what took those guys so long to write the bible? Didn't anything at all happen until Jesus died on the cross? That must have sucked....
Also, ...urgh i forgot... hahaha oh well who really cares. Im tired.
Oooh i got it...when did Christianity start?
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Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:28 pm |
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My answer is 4.
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Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:39 pm |
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4?  hmm...i havent even read the whole bible yet...maybe i should hey? |
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Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:54 pm |
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Hey, its entirely up to you. I haven't read the bible, I've read a few verses here and there but thats it. Anyone remember, Hamlet style!
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Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:34 pm |
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I read it all the time its all around my house 2  |
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Location: In Christ
Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:58 am |
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| Fred.. We were all born into the world without sinn there fore we were created without it. Its what we choose it our free will that god gave us that decides our fate. Whether we choose to sinn or not god and his mercy will wait for us. Because through one man sinn came into the world and through another sinn went out. Because through Jesus Crist we can be forgiven. Therefore made right with god. God does not punish the righteous but that does not mean you wont come to testing. God kill all in the old testament in the days of Noah because the world was so sinnfull and the was now righteous person bar one and his family. Noah and his family stayed faithful to God so he let them live. What would of happened if he didn't have the flood then... and Noah and his family died... the world would be full of sinn and there would be no righteous. It wasn't through his angry he kill the world it was for its salvation that he did it. Before you ask meaningless questions next time ask me. |
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infinities edge
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Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:46 pm |
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Could you answer any questions?
Why did a perfect god change from killing everyone indicriminately to a god super nice and loving everyone?
And if he was perfect and hated 'sinning' why did he make things that sin?
I had another question you wont answer but I forgot it while typing the others... =(
Christians are just as liable to go to hell as atheists are anyways. Out of the thousands of religions, you have to admit that there is at least the slightest chance that you've chosen the wrong religion, just as most atheists would. Unless of course you carry an extremely blind faith and are completely closed minded.
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Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:47 pm |
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Also, i'm not even one of you people but it is spelt 'sin'. Correct me if i'm wrong Mathew and Debbie.
And learn to use paragraphs.
*Shakes head at humanity*
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Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:55 pm |
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And bring your bible tomorrow.
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